[DeTomaso] Intake installation tips?
redvobra at aol.com
redvobra at aol.com
Wed Oct 4 19:35:56 EDT 2006
There are water jackets in the head though, which are capped off by the gasket and air intake. It's leaking from the head side of the gasket.
-Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: forestg at worldnet.att.net
To: detomaso at realbig.com
Sent: Wed, 4 Oct 2006 6:16 AM
Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] Intake installation tips?
Something isn't right here. The Cleveland intake does not have water to it so how could it be leaking water?
Forest
----- Original Message ----- From: <redvobra at aol.com>
To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 12:14 AM
Subject: [DeTomaso] Intake installation tips?
> No sealant huh? I used a very thin layer of it but it doesn't appear to > have helped. I also have a little hint of water coming out from the sides > of the gaskets as well. I tried retorqing, but it didn't seem to matter.
>
> I was not happy at all with the way my intake went on. It was the biggest > PITA ever. I absolutely dread doing it again. I recently rebuilt a '93 302 > HO and the intake was a piece of cake. This 351C made me want to run home > to momma!
>
> Biggest problem I had was that since the bolt holes are at an angle, I > couldn't get the holes lined up. Holes wouldn't line up because the intake > wasn't down all the way, and I couldn't get it down all the way because I > couldn't get the bolts in to tighten it!
>
> I also went with a brand new set of ARP stainless bolts. They didn't want > to go in. Some of the threads actually came apart and I wound up putting > the old regular steel bolts back in instead. Seems like the old bolts were > a little sloppy, and that gave me the tolerence to get them in there.
>
> I normally use the cork stuff on the ends, but it was recently suggested > to me that I use a bead of silicon instead, so I tried it on the 351C. > Seemed to work fine.
>
> I just got my new gaskets today so I'll be taking apart the motor this > weekend and trying again.
>
> Anyone have any more install tips?
>
> -Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 4:17 AM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
> Cool!
>
> Someone else may have a tip on how to install the intake properly. I've
> always done it by the numbers with no gasket sealant. I follow the torque
> sequence and torque in 3 steps. After it heat cycles, I check the bolts.
> You're probably supposed to retorque by loosening everything and doing it
> all over again. I don't do that.
>
> Lately I've been gluing the gaskets to the heads, but that's because I > have
> aluminum A3 heads, and the gaskets must be trimmed to fit. The "glue" > makes
> it easier to trim the gasket.
>
> I used to always use the cork end rail gaskets, but lately I've been using > a
> bead of silicone. Both methods have worked well for me. The negative > with
> the silicone is you need to wait for it to dry.
>
> And then there are the gaskets. I always use Fel-Pro, but there may be
> better gaskets. I'm certainly not the expert. The Fel-Pro gaskets I get
> are one solid color, and they tear apart when you remove them - sorta like
> wet cardboard. I have a set of 4V gaskets that are much stiffer with
> print-o-seal type stuff around the ports. I would think the A3 gaskets
> would seal better at the expense of more difficult cleanup on removal.
>
> There was a guy in Hot Rod that had o-ring grooves cut in his intake. I
> don't remember how it all worked, but I believe he had some kind of > nitrogen
> filled o-rings in the grooves. It was a mongo-turbo race engine. The
> o-rings made it easy for him to pull the engine apart since he didn't have
> to fool with gaskets. I'd love something like that, but you know it cost > a
> lot. It's not like I change intakes every week, so I need to quit my
> whining.
>
> If you feel comfortable with the way you installed your intake, you may be
> okay with simply retorquing it. Maybe you have a bolt or two that isn't
> tight anymore.
>
> Will.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of redvobra at aol.com
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 12:07 AM
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>
> I think you're on the money. I pulled the plugs today and the #1 plug was
> covered in oil. I just replaced the intake, so I must have a bad seal > there.
> :(
>
> Time to order another set of gaskets and do it again.
>
> Thanks for the tip.
>
> -Chris
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wkooiman at earthlink.net
> To: detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 5:51 PM
> Subject: RE: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
> There's a good chance you're sucking oil into one of the ports.
>
> I once removed a bolt to attach a throttle return spring. I didn't get > the
> bolt on tight enough. It pinged some, but only when it was under load. I
> figured it was timing or bad gas. When I later removed the intake, I > could
> see the trail of oil going into the port - right next to the replaced > bolt.
>
> It doesn't take much to allow oil to get sucked into a port. It also
> doesn't take much oil to cause detonation.
>
> I'm not sure how you can resolve this without removing the intake. If
> you're good, you can probably see bits of aluminum on a plug. I'm not > that
> good. I'd think you'd have one plug that looks different from the rest, > but
> that's just a guess. If it were me, I'd remove the intake and look for
> trails of black going into a port.
>
> I doubt that it's the carb. Holley sets up their carbs a little rich to
> prevent problems like this.
>
> Will.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: detomaso-bounces at realbig.com
> [mailto:detomaso-bounces at realbig.com]On Behalf Of redvobra at aol.com
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 7:36 PM
> To: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>
> Yeah, it's quite sluggish to get the rpm's up, even for a launch. Feels
> like a really heavy flywheel or something. If I advance the timing a bit,
> will it cause more detonation?
>
> Not sure about the total advance or the curve. Whatever is factory from > the
> Mallory Unilite distributor is what I have...
>
> Biggest change recently is that I swapped from a torker intake to a
> performer intake so that I could put a stock engine cover on. Perhaps the
> stock engine cover is not venting heat as well. Engine is warmer, plus > it's
> bringing in warmer air?
>
> -Chris
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jtaphorn at kingwoodcable.com
> To: redvobra at aol.com; detomaso at realbig.com
> Sent: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 3:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
> Chris
>
> Your initial timing is very low. Does the car fell sluggish off throttle?
>
> Perhaps more important than initial timing is the dimension of the curve > and
> total advance.
>
> At what RPM are you getting total advance and what is it?
>
> Also, the stock damper outer rings separate from the inner damper over > time
> and may shift causing the timing marks to be off. It can be difficult to
> detect this shift. It is best to look at the status of the rubber > insulator
> between the two pieces. Another approach is to find top dead center on #1
> cylinder and see if the timing mark is at "0". You need to determine if > the
> damper marks are accurate.
>
> With this knowledge you can begin to set strategy.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <redvobra at aol.com>
> To: <detomaso at realbig.com>
> Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:33 PM
> Subject: [DeTomaso] detonation problems
>
>
>> My Pantera has always been a little on the verge of pre-ignition. If I >> put
>> anything but premium Chevron into the car, it'll start pinging. But
>> lately, it's been happening so often that it's becoming annoying. It's
>> most noticeable when the car is fully warmed up, on throttle tip in.
>> Initial timing is set at 8 degrees and it has a fresh Holly 650 on it.
>> Dunno why it would be getting worse unless California gas is now sucking
>> even more.
>>
>> Any thoughts/suggestions? Should I change the timing? Go to a colder >> plug?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> -Chris
>>
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