NO MORE COOLING PROBLEMS - JUST ADD CAPACITY AND RE-DESIGN
Re:[DeTomaso] Stock fan output vs. Flex-a-lite
Mad Dog Antenucci
teampantera at yahoo.com
Sun Dec 3 19:50:03 EST 2006
Hell no...and I ain't gonna either. ;-]
I know as much about cooling as I do astro-physics ;-]
If all you want to do is run a 20 minute track session or run ORR under 5000 R's you don't need to mod much to the Pantera cooling system although re-routing coolant lines helps up to a point.
I was already running an aftermarket radiator and an air dam on the front of the car and they worked great in combination with an oil cooler, an air dam and taller gearing right up and until I was pushing WOT or was at elevation (Silver State), and/or had high ambiant triple diget temps or a head wind in ORR competition......in other words running 180 mph at sea level for 5 minutes is allot easier then it is at elevation. But here's the list of the major cooling mods during 2006;
Pulled out the Fluidyne radiator and replaced it with a Ron Davis NASCAR rad (Ken Green donation and Dick Drenske who shoe-horned it into the front end)
Dick re-routed coolant lines
Added a new hood with Gurney-like flap opening as Mikey calls it (again Dick Drenske work)
Modified air dam
If any of you are seriously interested in the mod details then contact Dick Drenske at;
ddrenske at murraycompany.com
md
Jim Gray <jimgray at cableone.net> wrote:
So, Dawg, have you given us the details of this fantastic cooling
installation?
Jim "too hot, too often" Gray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mad Dog Antenucci"
To: "Scott Couchman" ; ;
; ;
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:27 AM
Subject: NO MORE COOLING PROBLEMS - JUST ADD CAPACITY AND RE-DESIGN
Re:[DeTomaso] Stock fan output vs. Flex-a-lite
> Scotty,
> Beam me up...I don't think there is any intelligent thought on this List
> anymore
>
> I think this discussion is a a mutant point from outter space. You
> slackers are making me sick with all this talk about stock fans vs
> flex-a-lite. ;-]
>
> Since D*ck Drenske re-plumbed my cooling system and added the Ron Davis
> NASCAR radiator I don't have any cooling problems at ANY speed at ANY
> time! Street or race.
>
> I averaged 148 MPH and ran up to 177.6 MPH at the Silver State in Sept.
> Fan didn't come on. Finish line temps 175f/water & 185f/oil. Think oil
> temp popped up to 200F at WOT but no higher.......LarryK double checked
> temps with thermal gun at finish line and water temp variance was +/- 3-4
> degrees more at heads and rad.
> Sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet!
>
> Where's my flamethrower....you guys are getting out of hand.
>
> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> "If it was easy you'd do it"
>
> P.S. The Brazilian girls donated a Flex-a-lite fan to JB. We ducttaped it
> to a pole and used it to stay cool
>
> ==============================================
>
> Scott Couchman wrote:
> FWIW.....I spent some time at SEMA talking with after-market radiator and
> fan suppliers concerning overheating issues I have with my 5.0 Mustang
> when driving ORR at speeds above 125mph. There was a lot of conflicting
> information/opinions, but one of the comments that made sense to me was
> that pusher fans are pushing cool air, while sucker fans are sucking warm
> air. Cool air is easier/more efficient to push than warm air is to pull.
>
> mikeldrew at aol.com wrote:
> Jack wrote:
>
> We've also found sucker-fans (behind the rad rather than pushers from
> the front) to be much more efficient than
> pushers, and another efficiency increase comes when suckers are
> combined with a
> full shroud that forces air flow through the entire rad core, not just
> two spots
> directly in front of or behind the fans.
>
>>>>It's worth mentioning that this shroud has both advantages and
> disadvantages. It improves the efficiency of the fans at lower speeds,
> but can radically decrease the effectiveness of the radiator at higher
> speeds, because it causes a restriction--the relatively small openings
> prevent air from flowing through and out of the radiator at elevated
> speeds.
>
> Johnny Woods found this out when he installed the Flex-A-Lite unit on
> his Pantera. He routinely drives around France at 150 mph, and he
> found that at triple-digit speeds, his car would start to overheat, but
> it ran fine below 100 mph, which is a classic symptom of an airflow
> problem. He wound up cutting the shroud apart and making an elaborate
> series of trap doors/flaps, which blow open when the pressure inside
> the shroud is greater than that on the outside. At lower speeds, when
> the fan is spinning, it is creating vacuum which sucks the trap doors
> closed. In fact, he may have gotten the idea from me, as this is an
> OEM arrangement used by VW on all their water-cooled cars, and I
> described the mechanism in use on my Sciroccos to him when he asked me
> about his problem.
>
> If you aren't in the habit of cruising at 100+, then it's probably
> never going to be an issue for you, and you can probably get away with,
> and in fact be quite happy with the Flex-A-Lite suckers. Having said
> that, the non-shrouded Spal fans that Wilkinson sells work extremely
> well too, and flow enough air to render a shroud unnecessary. Take
> your pick.
>
> Installing a fan setup with the shroud in front of the radiator is the
> stupidest thing I've ever heard of--yet Flex-A-Lite markets some of
> their fans thusly.
>
> Another point Jack made bears repeating--many fan manufacturers sell
> their fans with a cheesy mounting kit that relies on custom zip-ties
> that pass through the radiator core, to secure it to the radiator.
> This is NOT a good idea, and more than one Pantera owner has found out
> the hard way that road vibration etc. will cause the fans to move
> around on the radiator, and the zip ties act like little saws, slowly
> cutting the radiator apart until it leaks. IF you can find no better
> way to secure it, get a small-diameter aluminum or brass tube,
> carefully feed it through the fins, and then pass the zip ties through
> the tube. That MIGHT prevent a leak--but in my view it's no substitute
> for a proper mounting system, which utilizes brackets which are
> brazed/welded/whatevered to the radiator frame itself, without actually
> touching the fragile core. To me, that alone justifies the added
> expense of buying a package from a Pantera vendor, rather than saving a
> few bucks and ordering the ingredients from Summit etc.
>
> Cheers!
>
> Mike
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> Mad Dawg Antenucci
> Team Pantera Racing
> The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
> www.teampanteraracing.com
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Mad Dawg Antenucci
Team Pantera Racing
The 1st & still the only vintage race team in open road racing
www.teampanteraracing.com
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